Service Advisory for Butler Truckmount Owners!

[Leslie Judson Jones]

If you own a Butler truckmount system, there is a modification that we suggest for the blower silencer. We have had quite a few Butler systems come in for excess blower heat and low airflow issues. The heat issue was so severe that the heat would transfer into the pulley of the blower. This would cause premature belt failure. During our analysis of this problem we discovered a blower air restriction in the silencing system. In the pictures you will see that we cut the silencer open and discovered that all the air coming from the blower is being forced through a 4 inch long by 3 inch perforated pipe. This pipe has 1/4 inch holes. The end of the pipe is capped, so all of the air is forced through these ¼ inch holes. On this muffler, the holes began to stop up with corrosion, causing excess backpressure on the blower. This excess backpressure will cause the blower temperature to increase considerably. The backpressure also diminishes the airflow.

We corrected this problem by cutting the pipe open to allow free flow air. We were concerned that if we did this it might make the unit too loud, but since we reinstalled the silencing system, we have not noticed any increase in sound level. It is our opinion that even if the holes were not stopped up with corrosion that a 4 inch pipe with ¼ inch holes is too restrictive.

If you own a Butler and would like to check to see if you have an issue like this, go to the auto parts store and get a pocket thermometer. Drill a very tiny hole in the pipe leaving your blower. Insert the thermometer in the hole, start the unit, allow it to run for about 10 minutes to come up to operating temperature. Your blower exhaust temperature should not be over 275 degrees. If you are experiencing excess temperature, you now have a remedy for that problem.






.

 

[Art Kelley]

But at least this will help the Butler guys maintain their 230 degree water temp. They're used to crappy vacuum performance. That's what extra dry strokes and fans are for.

 

[davegillfishing]

hhhmmm crappy vacuum performance?? i dont recall any one of my customers ever
calling complaining about wet carpet or extended dry times..but i guess if i didnt have a butler
i would be taking jabs also.
thanks for the info..i will do a temp check and see what the deal is tomorrow.
dave

 

[kmdineen]

Would flushing the blower with hot water on a monthly basis prevent the crud build up on the perforated pipe?
Have you found this problem in both the 45 and 47 blower silencing systems?

 

[Jim Nelson]

How many hours on that unit.

 

[Brian H]

Leslie,

how many hours were on that silencer and what year is it?

 

[hogjowl]

Don't talk trash and then walk away, Les.

Answer their questions.

 

[Ryan]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but flushing the blower monthly or maybe its quarterly is in the recommended maintenance program for butlers.

If this guy had performed the maintenance like he was supposed to, is it likely this still would have happened?

 

[Ken Snow]

Smells like a self serving post and then a disappearing act when confronted with questions and responses that could lead to the exposure of the self serving nature. Too bad there are no rules about class on this board. I would think that at least in this room there should be.

Ken

 

[dgardner]

If the holes were plugged with soap, lint, etc. then maybe flushing would help. Les did say they were plugged with corrosion though. I would think flushing would not help in that case, perhaps would make the problem appear even quicker....

On the other hand, I wondered about Les' thought that the 1/4" holes were too restrictive. The tube is 3" dia. according to his post, which corresponds to an area of 7.07 square inches. If I'm looking at the pics right, I count 20 rows of 8 - 1/4" holes each. The total area of the holes would then be 7.85 sq. inches, so new, clean holes would not be any more restrictive than the tube itself, I think.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Les prefers the Prochem snail shell silencer that he's adapted to his machine?

 

[Ken Snow]

I don't think he wanted anyone to really think, nor question him. Just a chance to show his wares, zing a competitor and feel important me thinks.

 

[The Preacher]

Ken, if Les is correct, would you hire him to build your next fleet of "Hood" suckers???

was the pic Les posted of a poorly maintained unit???

 

[Ken Snow]

Danny, he has his own company so I don;t think that would be an option.

As for the unit, I can answer that for certain but that would be my guess. I also don;t have any idea if it is 2,5, 10 or 20 years old. Then again I don't know the system that well. A butler is a tool for us (A great tool we believe) and like all our tools we have 3 full time maintenance people to service them. My managers and maintenance people tell me what tools they want and that's what they get.

Ken

 

[The Preacher]

you rotate yore stuff out pretty regular, so it might be something to think about before you sell another one???

is cutting the box open the only way to get into it??? if so, just pawn the POS off and don't give it another thought!!! :roll:

 

[davegillfishing]

where the hell is less???
you got questions but not looking like you got answers..

 

[Ken Snow]

We've never heard of this problem before so it has been a non-issue for us and as far as I know a non-issue to the dozens and dozens of people I've sold our units to.

 

[The Preacher]

how long do you keep yore TM's before you rotate em Ken???

 

[Ken Snow]

5 or 6 years typically and then we refurbish before selling. Lets get off this thread so it can start working its way down and off the first page. Hate to keep giving this classless thread more read time. Shoot me a pm if Ii answer anything else Danny.

 

[dgardner]

is cutting the box open the only way to get into it??? if so, just pawn the POS off and don't give it another thought!!! :roll:

Instead of cutting it open, if I were going to keep the machine (and the same silencer), I think I'd take the time to modify the silencer. I would cut the entire pipe assembly out of the side and weld on a circular flange. Then you could unbolt the flange and slide the whole pipe out, clean the holes, and bolt it right back in.

 

[The Preacher]

B U M P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FB7777]

I'd be interested in knowing how many Butlers you've made this discovery on Les, since you said it was 'quite a few'

Have you brought this to Butler's attention?

If not, would you mind if I forwarded this thread and pictures to Butler so they can evaluate and see if any action needs to be taken?

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Whoa Guy's! Hold on a minute.
Sorry that I did not post sooner.

Ken,
I can't believe that you would accuse me of such cheap tactics. You accused me of posting this in self serving interest.
Explain to me how extending the life of the Butler's blower's, preventing the clutch's from burning out and increasing the airflow is benefiting me?

If I was such a bad guy, I would just let this go on and not tell anyone who own's a Butler about it. So the units would then have problems and maybe they would buy a Judson. This is what you would call self interest.

We have repaired 3 Butler's with this same problem. All the units had their filters in the recovery tank.

The inside of these silencer's are not Stainless Steel. From what I can tell the Carbon Steel is rusting from hot moist air.

As you can see in the pictures the holes are completely stopped up.

The silencer's that we repaired were between five and six years old. As far as did these Butler's have proper maintenance done to them, I was told that they did, but you never know.

Fred,
I don't see anything wrong with letting Butler know about this. They need to know it. I've always liked Butler's.
You know how I am about Stainless Steel, and they have a lot of it.
I've actually sold about 50 Butler units in my lifetime. When someone ask's me what is the best direct drive unit to buy.

I just thought that I would post this, because I've made a modification that would improve and extend the life of a Butler system. I thought that someone who owned a Butler would appreciate knowing this, but I see know that I need to just let truckmounts that I know have issue's go ahead and tear up, so it will cost the operator thousands of dollars in repairs and downtime. Then I will be a good guy!!!

 

[Mikey P]

Some times that Ken Snow guy comes off just a tad prima donnaish...



as a former Butler owner I would have loved to have had this warning..






Hey Less, were were you when I was considering buying that POS Big Truck? :mrgreen:

 

[ronbeatty]

Les, water off a ducks back, is how I would handle the comments. You have always looked out for the little guy. Hold your head high, and someone will throw tomatoes. :roll:

 

[Larry Cobb]

I agree completely with Les. :roll:

The problem is the use of a steel that is not stainless.

We have also seen many blower silencers on slide-in TM's,
clogged by corrosion of the internal steel parts.
It causes the blower to overheat.

All blower silencers should be made of stainless steel ...
if you expect them to last more than a year and a half or so ...
with wet detergent run thru them every day.

Stainless steel forever.

Larry

 

[Brian H]

Les,

we cut one of ours open today based on your advice... Guess what we found? A totally different inside.... It has been totally redesigned and this is in a 2006 model.

Sorry i was so disgusted that I just walked away!!! I will post pictures tomorrow!!!!

Now please redeem yourself and answer my original question. What year was this silencer from and how many hours... Seems like an easy enough question.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Les,

we cut one of ours open today based on your advice... Guess what we found? A totally different inside.... It has been totally redesigned and this is in a 2006 model.

Sorry i was so disgusted that I just walked away!!! I will post pictures tomorrow!!!!

Now please redeem yourself and answer my original question. What year was this silencer from and how many hours... Seems like an easy enough question.

I will call and ck on how old, I know 1 was 6 years old I did it last year.

If you own a Butler and would like to check to see if you have an issue like this, go to the auto parts store and get a pocket thermometer. Drill a very tiny hole in the pipe leaving your blower. Insert the thermometer in the hole, start the unit, allow it to run for about 10 minutes to come up to operating temperature. Your blower exhaust temperature should not be over 275 degrees. If you are experiencing excess temperature, you now have a remedy for that problem.

 

[Duane Oxley]

All blower silencers should be made of stainless steel ...
if you expect them to last more than a year and a half or so ...
with wet detergent run thru them every day.

Stainless steel forever.

Larry

Ummm. Stainless steel silencers that last forever... Even though they accumulate crap along the way like any other silencer?

I have to disagree on this one. Better to have throw- away silencers that you can replace in an hour and spend less than $200 in the process. MUCH better for long- term airflow...

... Just my 2 cents...

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

[quote="Larry Cobb":2z1byxqy]
All blower silencers should be made of stainless steel ...
if you expect them to last more than a year and a half or so ...
with wet detergent run thru them every day.

Stainless steel forever.

Larry

Ummm. Stainless steel silencers that last forever... Even though they accumulate crap along the way like any other silencer?

I have to disagree on this one. Better to have throw- away silencers that you can replace in an hour and spend less than $200 in the process. MUCH better for long- term airflow...

... Just my 2 cents...[/quote:2z1byxqy]